# LANGUAGE translation of https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/copyright-and-globalization.html
# Copyright (C) YEAR Free Software Foundation, Inc.
# This file is distributed under the same license as the original article.
# FIRST AUTHOR <EMAIL@ADDRESS>, YEAR.
#
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#. type: Content of: <title>
msgid ""
"Copyright and Globalization in the Age of Computer Networks - GNU Project - "
"Free Software Foundation"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><h2>
msgid "Copyright and Globalization in the Age of Computer Networks"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><div><p>
msgid ""
"The following is an edited transcript from a speech given at <abbr "
"title=\"Massachusetts Institute of Technology\">MIT</abbr> in the "
"Communications Forum on Thursday, April 19, 2001."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>DAVID THORBURN, moderator</b>: Our speaker today, Richard Stallman, is a "
"legendary figure in the computing world, and my experience in trying to find "
"a respondent to share the podium with him was instructive.  One "
"distinguished MIT professor told me that Stallman needs to be understood as "
"a charismatic figure in a biblical parable&mdash;a kind of Old Testament "
"anecdote-lesson.  &ldquo;Imagine,&rdquo; he said, &ldquo;a Moses or a "
"Jeremiah&mdash;better a Jeremiah.&rdquo; And I said, &ldquo;Well, that's "
"very admirable.  That sounds wonderful.  It confirms my sense of the kind of "
"contribution he has made to the world.  Then why are you reluctant to share "
"the podium with him?&rdquo; His answer: &ldquo;Like Jeremiah or Moses, he "
"would simply overwhelm me.  I won't appear on the same panel him, but if you "
"asked me to name five people alive in the world who have truly helped us "
"all, Richard Stallman would be one of them.&rdquo;"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>RICHARD STALLMAN</b>: I should [begin by explaining why I have refused to "
"allow this Forum to be web cast], in case it wasn't clear fully what the "
"issue is: The software they use for web broadcasting requires the user to "
"download certain software in order to receive the broadcast.  That software "
"is not free software.  It's available at zero price but only as an "
"executable, which is a mysterious bunch of numbers."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"What it does is secret.  You can't study it; you can't change it; and you "
"certainly can't publish it in your own modified version.  And those are "
"among the freedoms that are essential in the definition of &ldquo;free "
"software.&rdquo;"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So if I am to be an honest advocate for free software, I can hardly go "
"around giving speeches, then put pressure on people to use nonfree "
"software.  I'd be undermining my own cause.  And if I don't show that I take "
"my principles seriously, I can't expect anybody else to take them seriously."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"However, this speech is not about free software.  After I'd been working on "
"the free software movement for several years and people started using some "
"of the pieces of the GNU operating system, I began getting invited to give "
"speeches [at which] &hellip; people started asking me: &ldquo;Well, how do "
"the ideas about freedom for software users generalize to other kinds of "
"things?&rdquo;"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"And, of course, people asked silly questions like, &ldquo;Well, should "
"hardware be free?&rdquo; &ldquo;Should this microphone be free?&rdquo;"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Well, what does that mean? Should you be free to copy it and change it? "
"Well, as for changing it, if you buy the microphone, nobody is going to stop "
"you from changing it.  And as for copying it, nobody has a microphone "
"copier.  Outside of <cite>Star Trek</cite>, those things don't exist.  Maybe "
"some day there'll be nanotechnological analyzers and assemblers, and it "
"really will be possible to copy a physical object, and then these issues of "
"whether you're free to do that will start being really important.  We'll see "
"agribusiness companies trying to stop people from copying food, and that "
"will become a major political issue, if that technological capability will "
"ever exist.  I don't know if it will; it's just speculation at this point."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"But for other kinds of information, you can raise the issue because any kind "
"of information that can be stored on a computer, conceivably, can be copied "
"and modified.  So the ethical issues of free software, the issues of a "
"user's right to copy and modify software, are the same as such questions for "
"other kinds of published information.  Now I'm not talking about private "
"information, say, personal information, which is never meant to be available "
"to the public at all.  I'm talking about the rights you should have if you "
"get copies of published things where there's no attempt to keep them secret."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"In order to explain my ideas on the subject, I'd like to review the history "
"of the distribution of information and of copyright.  In the ancient world, "
"books were written by hand with a pen, and anybody who knew how to read and "
"write could copy a book about as efficiently as anybody else.  Now somebody "
"who did it all day would probably learn to be somewhat better at it, but "
"there was not a tremendous difference.  And because the copies were made one "
"at a time, there was no great economy of scale.  Making ten copies took ten "
"times as long as making one copy.  There was also nothing forcing "
"centralization; a book could be copied anywhere."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Now because of this technology, because it didn't force copies to be "
"identical, there wasn't in the ancient world the same total divide between "
"copying a book and writing a book.  There are things in between that made "
"sense.  They did understand the idea of an author.  They knew, say, that "
"this play was written by Sophocles but in between writing a book and copying "
"a book, there were other useful things you could do.  For instance, you "
"could copy a part of a book, then write some new words, copy some more and "
"write some new words and on and on.  This was called &ldquo;writing a "
"commentary&rdquo;&mdash;that was a common thing to do&mdash;and these "
"commentaries were appreciated."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"You could also copy a passage out of one book, then write some other words, "
"and copy a passage from another book and write some more and so on, and this "
"was making a compendium.  Compendia were also very useful.  There are works "
"that are lost but parts of them survived when they were quoted into other "
"books that got to be more popular than the original.  Maybe they copied the "
"most interesting parts, and so people made a lot of copies of these, but "
"they didn't bother copying the original because it wasn't interesting "
"enough."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Now as far as I can tell, there was no such thing as copyright in the "
"ancient world.  Anyone who wanted to copy a book could copy the book.  Later "
"on, the printing press was developed and books started to be copied on the "
"printing press.  Now the printing press was not just a quantitative "
"improvement in the ease of copying.  It affected different kinds of copying "
"unevenly because it introduced an inherent economy of scale.  It was a lot "
"of work to set the type and much less work to make many identical copies of "
"the page.  So the result was that copying books tended to become a "
"centralized, mass-production activity.  Copies of any given book would "
"probably be made in only a few places."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"It also meant that ordinary readers couldn't copy books efficiently.  Only "
"if you had a printing press could you do that.  So it was an industrial "
"activity."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Now for the first few centuries of printing, printed books did not totally "
"replace hand-copying.  Hand-copied books were still made, sometimes by rich "
"people and sometimes by poor people.  The rich people did this to get an "
"especially beautiful copy that would show how rich they were, and poor "
"people did it because maybe they didn't have enough money to buy a printed "
"copy but they had the time to copy a book by hand.  As the song says, "
"&ldquo;Time ain't money when all you got is time.&rdquo;"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So hand-copying was still done to some extent.  I think it was in the 1800s "
"that printing actually got to be cheap enough that even poor people could "
"afford printed books if they were literate."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Now copyright was developed along with the use of the printing press and "
"given the technology of the printing press, it had the effect of an "
"industrial regulation.  It didn't restrict what readers could do; it "
"restricted what publishers and authors could do.  Copyright in England was "
"initially a form of censorship.  You had to get government permission to "
"publish the book.  But the idea has changed.  By the time of the "
"U.S. Constitution, people came to a different idea of the purpose of "
"copyright, and I think that that idea was accepted in England as well."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"For the U.S. Constitution it was proposed that authors should be entitled to "
"a copyright, a monopoly on copying their books.  This proposal was "
"rejected.  Instead, a crucially different proposal was adopted which is "
"that, for the sake of promoting progress, Congress could optionally "
"establish a copyright system that would create these monopolies.  So the "
"monopolies, according to the U.S. Constitution, do not exist for the sake of "
"those who own them; they exist for the sake of promoting the progress of "
"science.  The monopolies are handed out to authors as a way of modifying "
"their behavior to get them to do something that serves the public."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So the goal is more written and published books which other people can then "
"read.  And this is believed to contribute to increased literary activity, "
"increased writing about science and other fields, and society then learns "
"through this.  That's the purpose to be served.  The creation of private "
"monopolies was a means to an end only, and the end is a public end."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Now copyright in the age of the printing press was fairly painless because "
"it was an industrial regulation.  It restricted only the activities of "
"publishers and authors.  Well, in some strict sense, the poor people who "
"copied books by hand may have been infringing copyright, too.  But nobody "
"ever tried to enforce copyright against them because it was understood as an "
"industrial regulation."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Copyright in the age of the printing press was also easy to enforce because "
"it had to be enforced only where there was a publisher, and publishers, by "
"their nature, make themselves known.  If you're trying to sell books, you've "
"got to tell people where to come to buy them.  You don't have to go into "
"everybody's house to enforce copyright."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"And, finally, copyright may have been a beneficial system in that context.  "
"Copyright in the U.S. is considered by legal scholars as a trade, a bargain "
"between the public and authors.  The public trades away some of its natural "
"rights to make copies, and in exchange gets the benefit of more books' being "
"written and published."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Now, is this an advantageous trade? Well, when the general public can't make "
"copies because they can only be efficiently made on printing "
"presses&mdash;and most people don't own printing presses&mdash;the result is "
"that the general public is trading away a freedom it is unable to exercise, "
"a freedom that is of no practical value.  So if you have something that is a "
"byproduct of your life and it's useless and you have the opportunity to "
"exchange it for something else of any value, you're gaining.  So that's why "
"copyright may have been an advantageous trade for the public in that time."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"But the context is changing, and that has to change our ethical evaluation "
"of copyright.  Now the basic principles of ethics are not changed by "
"advances in technology; they're too fundamental to be touched by such "
"contingencies.  But our decision about any specific question is a matter of "
"the consequences of the alternatives available, and the consequences of a "
"given choice may change when the context changes.  That is what is happening "
"in the area of copyright law because the age of the printing press is coming "
"to an end, giving way gradually to the age of the computer networks."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Computer networks and digital information technology are bringing us back to "
"a world more like the ancient world where anyone who can read and use the "
"information can also copy it and can make copies about as easily as anyone "
"else could make them.  They are perfect copies and they're just as good as "
"the copies anyone else could make.  So the centralization and economy of "
"scale introduced by the printing press and similar technologies is going "
"away."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"And this changing context changes the way copyright law works.  You see, "
"copyright law no longer acts as an industrial regulation; it is now a "
"Draconian restriction on a general public.  It used to be a restriction on "
"publishers for the sake of authors.  Now, for practical purposes, it's a "
"restriction on a public for the sake of publishers.  Copyright used to be "
"fairly painless and uncontroversial.  It didn't restrict the general "
"public.  Now that's not true.  If you have a computer, the publishers "
"consider restricting you to be their highest priority.  Copyright was easy "
"to enforce because it was a restriction only on publishers who were easy to "
"find and what they published was easy to see.  Now the copyright is a "
"restriction on each and everyone of you.  To enforce it requires "
"surveillance&mdash;an intrusion&mdash;and harsh punishments, and we are "
"seeing these being enacted into law in the U.S. and other countries."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"And copyright used to be, arguably, an advantageous trade for the public to "
"make because the public was trading away freedoms it couldn't exercise.  "
"Well, now it can exercise these freedoms.  What do you do if you have been "
"producing a byproduct which was of no use to you and you were in the habit "
"of trading it away and then, all of a sudden, you discover a use for it? You "
"can actually consume it, use it.  What do you do? You don't trade at all; "
"you keep some.  And that's what the public would naturally want to do."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"That's what the public does whenever it's given a chance to voice its "
"preference; it keeps some of this freedom and exercises it.  Napster is a "
"big example of that, the public deciding to exercise the freedom to copy "
"instead of giving it up.  So the natural thing for us to do to make "
"copyright law fit today's circumstances is to reduce the amount of copyright "
"power that copyright owners get, to reduce the amount of restriction that "
"they place on the public and to increase the freedom that the public "
"retains."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"But this is not what the publishers want to do.  What they want to do is "
"exactly the opposite.  They wish to increase copyright powers to the point "
"where they can remain firmly in control of all use of information.  This has "
"led to laws that have given an unprecedented increase in the powers of "
"copyright.  Freedoms that the public used to have in the age of the printing "
"press are being taken away."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"For instance, let's look at e-books.  There's a tremendous amount of hype "
"about e-books; you can hardly avoid it.  I took a flight in Brazil and in "
"the in-flight magazine, there was an article saying that maybe it would take "
"10 or 20 years before we all switched to e-books.  Clearly, this kind of "
"campaign comes from somebody paying for it.  Now why are they doing that? I "
"think I know.  The reason is that e-books are the opportunity to take away "
"some of the residual freedoms that readers of printed books have always had "
"and still have&mdash;the freedom, for instance, to lend a book to your "
"friend or borrow it from the public library or sell a copy to a used "
"bookstore or buy a copy anonymously, without putting a record in the "
"database of who bought that particular book.  And maybe even the right to "
"read it twice."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"These are freedoms that the publishers would like to take away, but they "
"can't do this for printed books because that would be too obvious a "
"power-grab and would raise an outcry. So they have found an indirect "
"strategy: First, they obtain the legislation to take away these freedoms for "
"e-books when there are no e-books; so there's no controversy.  There are no "
"pre-existing users of e-books who are accustomed to their freedoms and will "
"defend them.  That they obtained with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act "
"in 1998.  Then they introduce e-books and gradually get everybody to switch "
"from printed books to e-books and eventually the result is, readers have "
"lost these freedoms without ever having an instant when those freedoms were "
"being taken away and when they might have fought back to retain them."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"We see at the same time efforts to take away people's freedom in using other "
"kinds of published works.  For instance, movies that are on DVDs are "
"published in an encrypted format that used to be secret&mdash;it was meant "
"to be secret&mdash;and the only way the movie companies would tell you the "
"format, so that you could make a DVD player, was if you signed a contract to "
"build certain restrictions into the player, with the result that the public "
"would be stopped even from fully exercising their legal rights.  Then a few "
"clever programmers in Europe figured out the format of DVDs and they wrote a "
"free software package that would read a DVD.  This made it possible to use "
"free software on top of the GNU+Linux operating system to watch the DVD that "
"you had bought, which is a perfectly legitimate thing to do.  You ought to "
"be able to do that with free software."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"But the movie companies objected and they went to court.  You see, the movie "
"companies used to make a lot of films where there was a mad scientist and "
"somebody was saying, &ldquo;But, Doctor, there are some things Man was not "
"meant to know.&rdquo; They must have watched their own films too much "
"because they came to believe that the format of DVDs is something that Man "
"was not meant to know.  And they obtained a ruling for total censorship of "
"the software for playing DVDs.  Even making a link to a site where this "
"information is legally available outside the U.S. has been prohibited.  An "
"appeal has been made against this ruling.  I signed a friend-of-the-court "
"brief in that appeal, I'm proud to say, although I'm playing a fairly small "
"role in that particular battle."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"The U.S. government intervened directly on the other side.  This is not "
"surprising when you consider why the Digital Millennium Copyright Act was "
"passed in the first place.  The reason is the campaign finance system that "
"we have in the U.S., which is essentially legalized bribery where the "
"candidates are bought by business before they even get elected.  And, of "
"course, they know who their master is&mdash;they know whom they're working "
"for&mdash;and they pass the laws to give business more power."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"What will happen with that particular battle, we don't know.  But meanwhile "
"Australia has passed a similar law and Europe is almost finished adopting "
"one; so the plan is to leave no place on earth where this information can be "
"made available to people.  But the U.S.  remains the world leader in trying "
"to stop the public from distributing information that's been published."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"The U.S. though is not the first country to make a priority of this.  The "
"Soviet Union treated it as very important.  There this unauthorized copying "
"and redistribution was known as <i>samizdat</i> and to stamp it out, they "
"developed a series of methods: First, guards watching every piece of copying "
"equipment to check what people were copying to prevent forbidden copying.  "
"Second, harsh punishments for anyone caught doing forbidden copying. You "
"could be sent to Siberia.  Third, soliciting informers, asking everyone to "
"rat on their neighbors and co-workers to the information police.  Fourth, "
"collective responsibility&mdash;You! You're going to watch that group! If I "
"catch any of them doing forbidden copying, you are going to prison.  So "
"watch them hard.  And, fifth, propaganda, starting in childhood to convince "
"everyone that only a horrible enemy of the people would ever do this "
"forbidden copying."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"The U.S. is using all of these measures now.  First, guards watching copying "
"equipment.  Well, in copy stores, they have human guards to check what you "
"copy.  But human guards to watch what you copy in your computer would be too "
"expensive; human labor is too expensive.  So they have robot guards.  That's "
"the purpose of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.  This software goes in "
"your computer; it's the only way you can access certain data and it stops "
"you from copying."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"There's a plan now to introduce this software into every hard disk, so that "
"there could be files on your hard disk that you can't even access except by "
"getting permission from some network server to access the file.  And to "
"bypass this software or even tell other people how to bypass it is a crime."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Second, harsh punishments.  A few years ago, if you made copies of something "
"and handed them out to your friends just to be helpful, this was not a "
"crime; it had never been a crime in the U.S.  Then they made it a felony, so "
"you could be put in prisons for years for sharing with your neighbor."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Third, informers.  Well, you may have seen the ads on TV, the ads in the "
"Boston subways asking people to rat on their co-workers to the information "
"police, which officially is called the Software Publishers Association."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"And fourth, collective responsibility.  In the U.S., this has been done by "
"conscripting Internet service providers, making them legally responsible for "
"everything their customers post.  The only way they can avoid always being "
"held responsible is if they have an invariable procedure to disconnect or "
"remove the information within two weeks after a complaint.  Just a few days "
"ago, I heard that a clever protest site criticizing City Bank for some of "
"its nasty policies was disconnected in this way.  Nowadays, you don't even "
"get your day in court; your site just gets unplugged."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"And, finally, propaganda, starting in childhood.  That's what the word "
"&ldquo;pirate&rdquo; is used for.  If you'll think back a few years, the "
"term &ldquo;pirate&rdquo; was formerly applied to publishers that didn't pay "
"the author.  But now it's been turned completely around.  It's now applied "
"to members of the public who escape from the control of the publisher.  It's "
"being used to convince people that only a nasty enemy of the people would "
"ever do this forbidden copying.  It says that &ldquo;sharing with your "
"neighbor is the moral equivalent of attacking a ship.&rdquo; I hope that you "
"don't agree with that and if you don't, I hope you will refuse to use the "
"word in that way."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So the publishers are purchasing laws to give themselves more power.  In "
"addition, they're also extending the length of time the copyright lasts.  "
"The U.S. Constitution says that copyright must last for a limited time, but "
"the publishers want copyright to last forever.  However, getting a "
"constitutional amendment would be rather difficult, so they found an easier "
"way that achieves the same result.  Every 20 years they retroactively extend "
"copyright by 20 years.  So the result is, at any given time, copyright "
"nominally lasts for a certain period and any given copyright will nominally "
"expire some day.  But that expiration will never be reached because every "
"copyright will be extended by 20 years every 20 years; thus no work will "
"ever go into the public domain again.  This has been called &ldquo;perpetual "
"copyright on the installment plan.&rdquo;"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"The law in 1998 that extended copyright by 20 years is known as the "
"&ldquo;Mickey Mouse Copyright Extension Act&rdquo; because one of the main "
"sponsors of this law was Disney.  Disney realized that the copyright on "
"Mickey Mouse was going to expire, and they don't want that to ever happen "
"because they make a lot of money from that copyright."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Now the original title of this talk was supposed to be &ldquo;Copyright and "
"Globalization.&rdquo; If you look at globalization, what you see is that "
"it's carried out by a number of policies which are done in the name of "
"economic efficiency or so-called free-trade treaties, which really are "
"designed to give business power over laws and policies.  They're not really "
"about free trade.  They're about a transfer of power: removing the power to "
"decide laws from the citizens of any country who might conceivably consider "
"their own interests and giving that power to businesses who will not "
"consider the interests of those citizens."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Democracy is the problem in their view, and these treaties are designed to "
"put an end to the problem.  For instance, <abbr title=\"North American Free "
"Trade Agreement\">NAFTA</abbr> actually contains provisions, I believe, "
"allowing companies to sue another government to get rid of a law that they "
"believe is interfering with their profits in the other country.  So foreign "
"companies have more power than citizens of the country."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"There are attempts being made to extend this beyond NAFTA.  For instance, "
"this is one of the goals of the so-called free trade area of the Americas, "
"to extend this principle to all the countries in South America and the "
"Caribbean as well, and the multilateral agreement on investment was intended "
"to spread it to the whole world."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"One thing we've seen in the '90s is that these treaties begin to impose "
"copyright throughout the world, and in more powerful and restrictive ways.  "
"These treaties are not free-trade treaties.  They're actually "
"corporate-controlled trade treaties being used to give corporations control "
"over world trade, in order to eliminate free trade."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"When the U.S. was a developing country in the 1800s, the U.S. did not "
"recognize foreign copyrights.  This was a decision made carefully, and it "
"was an intelligent decision.  It was acknowledged that for the U.S.  to "
"recognize foreign copyrights would just be disadvantageous, that it would "
"suck money out and wouldn't do much good."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"The same logic would apply today to developing countries but the U.S.  has "
"sufficient power to force them to go against their interests.  Actually, "
"it's a mistake to speak of the interests of countries in this context.  In "
"fact, I'm sure that most of you have heard about the fallacy of trying to "
"judge the public interest by adding up everybody's wealth.  If working "
"Americans lost $1 billion and Bill Gates gained $2 billion, would Americans "
"generally be better off? Would this be good for America? Or if you look only "
"at the total, it looks like it's good.  However, this example really shows "
"that the total is the wrong way to judge because Bill Gates really doesn't "
"need another $2 billion, but the loss of the $1 billion by other people who "
"don't have as much to start with might be painful."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Well, in a discussion about any of these trade treaties, when you hear "
"people talk about the interests of this country or that country, what "
"they're doing, within each country, is adding up everybody's income.  The "
"rich people and the poor people are being added up.  So it's actually an "
"excuse to apply that same fallacy to get you to ignore the effect on the "
"distribution of wealth within the country and whether the treaty is going to "
"make that more uneven, as it has done in the U.S."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So it's really not the U.S. interest that is being served by enforcing "
"copyright around the world.  It's the interests of certain business owners, "
"many of whom are in the U.S. and some of whom are in other countries.  It "
"doesn't, in any sense, serve the public interest."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"But what would make sense to do? If we believe in the goal of copyright "
"stated, for instance in the U.S. Constitution, the goal of promoting "
"progress, what would be intelligent policies to use in the age of the "
"computer network? Clearly, instead of increasing copyright powers, we have "
"to pull them back so as to give the general public a certain domain of "
"freedom where they can make use of the benefits of digital technology, make "
"use of their computer networks.  But how far should that go? That's an "
"interesting question because I don't think we should necessarily abolish "
"copyright totally."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"The idea of trading some freedoms for more progress might still be an "
"advantageous trade at a certain level, even if traditional copyright gives "
"up too much freedom.  But in order to think about this intelligently, the "
"first thing we have to recognize is, there's no reason to make it totally "
"uniform.  There's no reason to insist on making the same deal for all kinds "
"of work."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"In fact, that already isn't the case because there are a lot of exceptions "
"for music.  Music is treated very differently under copyright law.  But the "
"arbitrary insistence on uniformity is used by the publishers in a certain "
"clever way.  They pick some peculiar special case and they make an argument "
"that, in that special case, it would be advantageous to have this much "
"copyright.  And then they say that for uniformity's sake, there has to be "
"this much copyright for everything.  So, of course, they pick the special "
"case where they can make the strongest argument, even if it's a rather rare "
"special case and not really very important overall."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"But maybe we should have that much copyright for that particular special "
"case.  We don't have to pay the same price for everything we buy.  A "
"thousand dollars for a new car might be a very good deal.  A thousand "
"dollars for a container of milk is a horrible deal.  You wouldn't pay the "
"special price for everything you buy in other areas of life.  Why do it "
"here?"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So we need to look at different kinds of works, and I'd like to propose a "
"way of doing this."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"This includes recipes, computer programs, manuals and textbooks, reference "
"works like dictionaries and encyclopedias.  For all these functional works, "
"I believe that the issues are basically the same as they are for software "
"and the same conclusions apply.  People should have the freedom even to "
"publish a modified version because it's very useful to modify functional "
"works.  People's needs are not all the same.  If I wrote this work to do the "
"job I think needs doing, your idea as a job you want to do may be somewhat "
"different.  So you want to modify this work to do what's good for you."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"At that point, there may be other people who have similar needs to yours, "
"and your modified version might be good for them.  Everybody who cooks knows "
"this and has known this for hundreds of years.  It's normal to make copies "
"of recipes and hand them out to other people, and it's also normal to change "
"a recipe.  If you change the recipe and cook it for your friends and they "
"like eating it, they might ask you, &ldquo;Could I have the recipe?&rdquo; "
"Then maybe you'll write down your version and give them copies.  That is "
"exactly the same thing that we much later started doing in the free-software "
"community."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So that's one class of work.  The second class of work is works whose "
"purpose is to say what certain people think.  Talking about those people is "
"their purpose.  This includes, say, memoirs, essays of opinion, scientific "
"papers, offers to buy and sell, catalogues of goods for sale.  The whole "
"point of those works is that they tell you what somebody thinks or what "
"somebody saw or what somebody believes.  To modify them is to misrepresent "
"the authors; so modifying these works is not a socially useful activity.  "
"And so verbatim copying is the only thing that people really need to be "
"allowed to do."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"The next question is: Should people have the right to do commercial verbatim "
"copying? Or is noncommercial enough? You see, these are two different "
"activities we can distinguish, so that we can consider the questions "
"separately&mdash;the right to do noncommercial verbatim copying and the "
"right to do commercial verbatim copying.  Well, it might be a good "
"compromise policy to have copyright cover commercial verbatim copying but "
"allow everyone the right to do noncommercial verbatim copying.  This way, "
"the copyright on the commercial verbatim copying, as well as on all modified "
"versions&mdash;only the author could approve a modified version&mdash;would "
"still provide the same revenue stream that it provides now to fund the "
"writing of these works, to whatever extent it does."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"By allowing the noncommercial verbatim copying, it means the copyright no "
"longer has to intrude into everybody's home.  It becomes an industrial "
"regulation again, easy to enforce and painless, no longer requiring "
"draconian punishments and informers for the sake of its enforcement.  So we "
"get most of the benefit&mdash;and avoid most of the horror&mdash;of the "
"current system."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"The third category of works is aesthetic or entertaining works, where the "
"most important thing is just the sensation of looking at the work.  Now for "
"these works, the issue of modification is a very difficult one because on "
"the one hand, there is the idea that these works reflect the vision of an "
"artist and to change them is to mess up that vision.  On the other hand, you "
"have the fact that there is the folk process, where a sequence of people "
"modifying a work can sometimes produce a result that is extremely rich.  "
"Even when you have artists' producing the works, borrowing from previous "
"works is often very useful.  Some of Shakespeare's plays used a story that "
"was taken from some other play.  If today's copyright laws had been in "
"effect back then, those plays would have been illegal."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So it's a hard question what we should do about publishing modified versions "
"of an aesthetic or an artistic work, and we might have to look for further "
"subdivisions of the category in order to solve this problem.  For example, "
"maybe computer game scenarios should be treated one way; maybe everybody "
"should be free to publish modified versions of them.  But perhaps a novel "
"should be treated differently; perhaps for that, commercial publication "
"should require an arrangement with the original author."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Now if commercial publication of these aesthetic works is covered by "
"copyright, that will give most of the revenue stream that exists today to "
"support the authors and musicians, to the limited extent that the present "
"system supports them, because it does a very bad job.  So that might be a "
"reasonable compromise, just as in the case of the works which represent "
"certain people."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"If we look ahead to the time when the age of the computer networks will have "
"fully begun, when we're past this transitional stage, we can envision "
"another way for the authors to get money for their work.  Imagine that we "
"have a digital cash system that enables you to get money for your work."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Imagine that we have a digital cash system that enables you to send somebody "
"else money through the Internet; this can be done in various ways using "
"encryption, for instance.  And imagine that verbatim copying of all these "
"aesthetic works is permitted.  But they're written in such a way that when "
"you are playing one or reading one or watching one, a box appears on the "
"side of your screen that says, &ldquo;Click here to send a dollar to the "
"author,&rdquo; or the musician or whatever.  And it just sits there; it "
"doesn't get in your way; it's on the side.  It doesn't interfere with you, "
"but it's there, reminding you that it's a good thing to support the writers "
"and the musicians."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So if you love the work that you're reading or listening to, eventually "
"you're going to say, &ldquo;Why shouldn't I give these people a dollar? It's "
"only a dollar.  What's that? I won't even miss it.&rdquo; And people will "
"start sending a dollar.  The good thing about this is that it makes copying "
"the ally of the authors and musicians.  When somebody e-mails a friend a "
"copy, that friend might send a dollar, too.  If you really love it, you "
"might send a dollar more than once and that dollar is more than they're "
"going to get today if you buy the book or buy the CD because they get a tiny "
"fraction of the sale.  The same publishers that are demanding total power "
"over the public in the name of the authors and musicians are giving those "
"authors and musicians the shaft all the time."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"I recommend you read Courtney Love's article in <cite>Salon</cite> magazine, "
"an article about pirates that plan to use musicians' work without paying "
"them.  These pirates are the record companies that pay musicians 4% of the "
"sales figures, on the average.  Of course, the very successful musicians "
"have more clout.  They get more than 4% of their large sales figures, which "
"means that the great run of musicians who have a record contract get less "
"than 4% of their small sales figures."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Here's the way it works: The record company spends money on publicity and "
"they consider this expenditure as an advance to the musicians, although the "
"musicians never see it.  So nominally when you buy a CD, a certain fraction "
"of that money is going to the musicians, but really it isn't.  Really, it's "
"going to pay back the publicity expenses, and only if the musicians are very "
"successful do they ever see any of that money."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"The musicians, of course, sign their record contracts because they hope "
"they're going to be one of those few who strike it rich.  So essentially a "
"rolling lottery is being offered to the musicians to tempt them.  Although "
"they're good at music, they may not be good at careful, logical reasoning to "
"see through this trap.  So they sign and then probably all they get is "
"publicity.  Well, why don't we give them publicity in a different way, not "
"through a system that's based on restricting the public and a system of the "
"industrial complex that saddles us with lousy music that's easy to sell.  "
"Instead, why not make the listener's natural impulse to share the music they "
"love the ally of the musicians? If we have this box that appears in the "
"player as a way to send a dollar to the musicians, then the computer "
"networks could be the mechanism for giving the musicians this publicity, the "
"same publicity which is all they get from record contracts now."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"We have to recognize that the existing copyright system does a lousy job of "
"supporting musicians, just as lousy as world trade does of raising living "
"standards in the Philippines and China.  You have these enterprise zones "
"where everyone works in a sweatshop and all of the products are made in "
"sweatshops.  I knew that globalization was a very inefficient way of raising "
"living standards of people overseas.  Say, an American is getting paid $20 "
"an hour to make something and you give that job to a Mexican who is getting "
"paid maybe six dollars a day, what has happened here is that you've taken a "
"large amount of money away from an American worker, given a tiny fraction, "
"like a few percents, to a Mexican worker and given back the rest to the "
"company.  So if your goal is to raise the living standards of Mexican "
"workers, this is a lousy way to do it."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"It's interesting to see how the same phenomenon is going on in the copyright "
"industry, the same general idea.  In the name of these workers who certainly "
"deserve something, you propose measures that give them a tiny bit and really "
"mainly prop up the power of corporations to control our lives."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"If you're trying to replace a very good system, you have to work very hard "
"to come up with a better alternative.  If you know that the present system "
"is lousy, it's not so hard to find a better alternative; the standard of "
"comparison today is very low.  We must always remember that when we consider "
"issues of copyright policy."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So I think I've said most of what I want to say.  I'd like to mention that "
"tomorrow is Phone-In Sick Day in Canada.  Tomorrow is the beginning of a "
"summit to finish negotiating the free trade area of the Americas to try to "
"extend corporate power throughout additional countries, and a big protest is "
"being planned for Quebec.  We've seen extreme methods being used to smash "
"this protest.  A lot of Americans are being blocked from entering Canada "
"through the border that they're supposed to be allowed to enter through at "
"any time."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"On the flimsiest of excuses, a wall has been built around the center of "
"Quebec to be used as a fortress to keep protesters out.  We've seen a large "
"number of different dirty tricks used against public protest against these "
"treaties.  So whatever democracy remains to us after government powers have "
"been taken away from democratically elected governors and given to "
"businesses and to unelected international bodies, whatever is left after "
"that may not survive the suppression of public protest against it."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"I've dedicated 17 years of my life to working on free software and allied "
"issues.  I didn't do this because I think it's the most important political "
"issue in the world.  I did it because it was the area where I saw I had to "
"use my skills to do a lot of good.  But what's happened is that the general "
"issues of politics have evolved, and the biggest political issue in the "
"world today is resisting the tendency to give business power over the public "
"and governments.  I see free software and the allied questions for other "
"kinds of information that I've been discussing today as one part of that "
"major issue.  So I've indirectly found myself working on that issue.  I hope "
"I contribute something to the effort."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid "<b>RESPONSE</b>:"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>THORBURN</b>: We'll turn to the audience for questions and comments in a "
"moment.  But let me offer a brief general response.  It seems to me that the "
"strongest and most important practical guidance that Stallman offers us has "
"two key elements.  One is the recognition that old assumptions about "
"copyright, old usages of copyright are inappropriate; they are challenged or "
"undermined by the advent of the computer and computer networks.  That may be "
"obvious, but it is essential."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Second is the recognition that the digital era requires us to reconsider how "
"we distinguish and weigh forms of intellectual and creative labor.  Stallman "
"is surely right that certain kinds of intellectual enterprises justify more "
"copyright protection than others.  Trying to identify systematically these "
"different kinds or levels of copyright protection seems to me a valuable way "
"to engage with the problems for intellectual work posed by the advent of the "
"computer."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"But I think I detect another theme that lies beneath what Stallman has been "
"saying and that isn't really directly about computers at all, but more "
"broadly about questions of democratic authority and the power that "
"government and corporations increasingly exercise over our lives.  This "
"populist and anti-corporate side to Stallman's discourse is nourishing but "
"also reductive, potentially simplifying.  And it is also perhaps overly "
"idealistic.  For example, how would a novelist or a poet or a songwriter or "
"a musician or the author of an academic textbook survive in this brave new "
"world where people are encouraged but not required to pay authors.  In other "
"words, it seems to me, the gap between existing practice and the visionary "
"possibilities Stallman speculates about is still immensely wide."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So I'll conclude by asking if Stallman would like to expand a bit on certain "
"aspects of his talk and, specifically, whether he has further thoughts about "
"the way in which what we'll call &ldquo;traditional creators&rdquo; would be "
"protected under his copyright system."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: First of all, I have to point out that we shouldn't use the "
"term &ldquo;protection&rdquo; to describe what copyright does.  Copyright "
"restricts people.  The term &ldquo;protection&rdquo; is a propaganda term of "
"the copyright-owning businesses.  The term &ldquo;protection&ldquo; means "
"stopping something from being somehow destroyed.  Well, I don't think a song "
"is destroyed if there are more copies of it being played more.  I don't "
"think that a novel is destroyed if more people are reading copies of it, "
"either.  So I won't use that word.  I think it leads people to identify with "
"the wrong party."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Also, it's a very bad idea to think about intellectual property for two "
"reasons: First, it prejudges the most fundamental question in the area which "
"is: How should these things be treated and should they be treated as a kind "
"of property? To use the term &ldquo;intellectual property&rdquo; to describe "
"the area is to presuppose the answer is &ldquo;yes,&rdquo; that that's the "
"way to treat things, not some other way."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Second, it encourages over-generalization.  Intellectual property is a "
"catch-all for several different legal systems with independent origins such "
"as, copyrights, patents, trademarks, trade secrets and some other things as "
"well.  They are almost completely different; they have nothing in common.  "
"But people who hear the term &ldquo;intellectual property&rdquo; are led to "
"a false picture where they imagine that there's a general principle of "
"intellectual property that was applied to specific areas, so they assume "
"that these various areas of the law are similar.  This leads not only to "
"confused thinking about what is right to do, it leads people to fail to "
"understand what the law actually says because they suppose that the "
"copyright law and patent law and trademark law are similar, when, in fact, "
"they are totally different."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So if you want to encourage careful thinking and clear understanding of what "
"the law says, avoid the term &ldquo;intellectual property.&rdquo; Talk about "
"copyrights.  Or talk about patents.  Or talk about trademarks or whichever "
"subject you want to talk about.  But don't talk about intellectual "
"property.  Opinion about intellectual property almost has to be a foolish "
"one.  I don't have an opinion about intellectual property.  I have opinions "
"about copyrights and patents and trademarks, and they're different.  I came "
"to them through different thought processes because those systems of law are "
"totally different."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid "Anyway, I made that digression, but it's terribly important."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So let me now get to the point.  Of course, we can't see now how well it "
"would work, whether it would work to ask people to pay money voluntarily to "
"the authors and musicians they love.  One thing that's obvious is that how "
"well such a system would work is proportional to the number of people who "
"are participating in the network, and that number, we know, is going to "
"increase by an order of magnitude over a number of years.  If we tried it "
"today, it might fail, and that wouldn't prove anything because with ten "
"times as many people participating, it might work."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"The other thing is, we do not have this digital cash payment system; so we "
"can't really try it today.  You could try to do something a little bit like "
"it.  There are services you can sign up for where you can pay money to "
"someone&mdash;things like PayPal.  But before you can pay anyone through "
"PayPal, you have to go through a lot of rigmarole and give them personal "
"information about you, and they collect records of whom you pay.  Can you "
"trust them not to misuse that?"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So the dollar might not discourage you, but the trouble it takes to pay "
"might discourage you.  The whole idea of this is that it should be as easy "
"as falling off a log to pay when you get the urge, so that there's nothing "
"to discourage you except the actual amount of money.  And if that's small "
"enough, why should it discourage you.  We know, though, that fans can really "
"love musicians, and we know that encouraging fans to copy and redistribute "
"the music has been done by some bands that were, and are, quite successful "
"like the &ldquo;Grateful Dead.&rdquo; They didn't have any trouble making a "
"living from their music because they encouraged fans to tape it and copy the "
"tapes.  They didn't even lose their record sales."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"We are gradually moving from the age of the printing press to the age of the "
"computer network, but it's not happening in a day.  People are still buying "
"lots of records, and that will probably continue for many years&mdash;maybe "
"forever.  As long as that continues, simply having copyrights that still "
"apply to commercial sales of records ought to do about as good a job of "
"supporting musicians as it does today.  Of course, that's not very good, "
"but, at least, it won't get any worse."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid "<b>DISCUSSION</b>:"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>QUESTION</b>: [A comment and question about free downloading and about "
"Stephen King's attempt to market one of his novels serially over the web.]"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: Yes, it's interesting to know what he did and what "
"happened.  When I first heard about that, I was elated.  I thought, maybe he "
"was taking a step towards a world that is not based on trying to maintain an "
"iron grip on the public.  Then I saw that he had actually written to ask "
"people to pay.  To explain what he did, he was publishing a novel as a "
"serial, by installments, and he said, &ldquo;If I get enough money, I'll "
"release more.&rdquo; But the request he wrote was hardly a request.  It "
"brow-beat the reader.  It said, &ldquo;If you don't pay, then you're evil.  "
"And if there are too many of you who are evil, then I'm just going to stop "
"writing this.&rdquo;"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Well, clearly, that's not the way to make the public feel like sending you "
"money.  You've got to make them love you, not fear you."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>SPEAKER</b>: The details were that he required a certain "
"percentage&mdash;I don't know the exact percentage, around 90% sounds "
"correct&mdash;of people to send a certain amount of money, which, I believe, "
"was a dollar or two dollars, or somewhere in that order of magnitude.  You "
"had to type in your name and your e-mail address and some other information "
"to get to download it and if that percentage of people was not reached after "
"the first chapter, he said that he would not release another chapter.  It "
"was very antagonistic to the public downloading it."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>QUESTION</b>: Isn't the scheme where there's no copyright but people are "
"asked to make voluntary donations open to abuse by people plagiarizing?"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: No.  That's not what I proposed.  Remember, I'm proposing "
"that there should be copyright covering commercial distribution and "
"permitting only verbatim redistribution noncommercially.  So anyone who "
"modified it to put in a pointer to his website, instead of a pointer to the "
"real author's website, would still be infringing the copyright and could be "
"sued exactly as he could be sued today."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>QUESTION</b>: I see.  So you're still imagining a world in which there is "
"copyright?"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: Yes.  As I've said, for those kinds of works.  I'm not "
"saying that everything should be permitted.  I'm proposing to reduce "
"copyright powers, not abolish them."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>THORBURN</b>: I guess one question that occurred to me while you were "
"speaking, Richard, and, again, now when you're responding here to this "
"question is why you don't consider the ways in which the computer, itself, "
"eliminates the middle men completely&mdash;in the way that Stephen King "
"refused to do&mdash;and might establish a personal relationship."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: Well, they can and, in fact, this voluntary donation is "
"one."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>THORBURN</b>: You think of that as not involving going through a "
"publisher at all?"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: Absolutely not.  I hope it won't, you see, because the "
"publishers exploit the authors terribly.  When you ask the publishers' "
"representatives about this, they say, &ldquo;Well, yes, if an author or if a "
"band doesn't want to go through us, they shouldn't be legally required to go "
"through us.&rdquo; But, in fact, they're doing their utmost to set it up so "
"that will not be feasible.  For instance, they're proposing restricted "
"copying media formats and in order to publish in these formats, you'll have "
"to go through the big publishers because they won't tell anyone else how to "
"do it.  So they're hoping for a world where the players will play these "
"formats, and in order to get anything that you can play on those players, "
"it'll have to come through the publishers."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So, in fact, while there's no law against an author or a musician publishing "
"directly, it won't be feasible.  There's also the lure of maybe hitting it "
"rich.  They say, &ldquo;We'll publicize you and maybe you'll hit it as rich "
"as the Beatles.&rdquo; Take your pick of some very successful group and, of "
"course, only a tiny fraction of musicians are going to have that happen.  "
"But they may be drawn by that into signing contracts that will lock them "
"down forever."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Publishers tend to be very bad at respecting their contracts with authors.  "
"For instance, book contracts typically have said that if a book goes out of "
"print, the rights revert to the author, and publishers have generally not "
"been very good about living up to that clause.  They often have to be "
"forced.  Well, what they're starting to do now is use electronic publication "
"as an excuse to say that it's never going out of print; so they never have "
"to give the rights back.  Their idea is, when the author has no clout, get "
"him to sign up and from then on, he has no power; it's only the publisher "
"that has the power."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>QUESTION</b>: Would it be good to have free licenses for various kinds of "
"works that protect for every user the freedom to copy them in whatever is "
"the appropriate way for that kind of work?"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: Well, people are working on this.  But for non-functional "
"works, one thing doesn't substitute for another.  Let's look at a functional "
"kind of work, say, a word processor.  Well, if somebody makes a free word "
"processor, you can use that; you don't need the nonfree word processors.  "
"But I wouldn't say that one free song substitutes for all the nonfree songs "
"or that a one free novel substitutes for all the nonfree novels.  For those "
"kinds of works, it's different.  So what I think we simply have to do is to "
"recognize that these laws do not deserve to be respected.  It's not wrong to "
"share with your neighbor, and if anyone tries to tell you that you cannot "
"share with your neighbor, you should not listen to him."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>QUESTION</b>: With regard to the functional works, how do you, in your "
"own thinking, balance out the need for abolishing the copyright with the "
"need for economic incentives in order to have these functional works "
"developed?"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: Well, what we see is, first of all, that this economic "
"incentive is a lot less necessary than people have been supposing.  Look at "
"the free software movement where we have over 100,000 part-time volunteers "
"developing free software.  We also see that there are other ways to raise "
"money for this which are not based on stopping the public from copying and "
"modifying these works."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"That's the interesting lesson of the free software movement.  Aside from the "
"fact that it gives you a way you can use a computer and keep your freedom to "
"share and cooperate with other people, it also shows us that this negative "
"assumption that people would never do these things unless they are given "
"special powers to force people to pay them is simply wrong.  A lot of people "
"will do these things.  Then if you look at, say, the writing of monographs "
"which serve as textbooks in many fields of science except for the ones that "
"are very basic, the authors are not making money out of that."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"We now have a free encyclopedia project which is, in fact, a commercial-free "
"encyclopedia project, and it's making progress.  We had a project for a GNU "
"encyclopedia but we merged it into the commercial project when they adopted "
"our license.  In January, they switched to the GNU Free Documentation "
"License for all the articles in their encyclopedia.  So we said, "
"&ldquo;Well, let's join forces with them and urge people to contribute to "
"them.&rdquo; It's called &ldquo;Nupedia,&rdquo; and you can find a link to "
"it, if you look at http://www.gnu.org/encyclopedia.  So here we've extended "
"the community development of a free base of useful knowledge from software "
"to encyclopedia.  I'm pretty confident now that in all these areas of "
"functional work, we don't need that economic incentive to the point where we "
"have to mess up the use of these works."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid "<b>THORBURN</b>: Well, what about the other two categories?"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: For the other two classes of work, I don't know.  I don't "
"know whether people will write some day novels without worrying about "
"whether they make money from it.  In a post-scarcity society, I guess they "
"would.  Maybe what we need to do in order to reach the post-scarcity society "
"is to get rid of the corporate control over the economy and the laws.  So, "
"in effect, it's a chicken-or-the-egg problem, you know.  Which do we do "
"first? How do we get the world where people don't have to desperately get "
"money except by removing the control by business? And how can we remove the "
"control by business except&mdash;Anyway, I don't know, but that's why I'm "
"trying to propose first a compromise copyright system and, second, the "
"voluntary payment supported by a compromise copyright system as a way to "
"provide a revenue stream to the people who write those works."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>QUESTION</b>: How would you really expect to implement this compromise "
"copyright system under the chokehold of corporate interests on American "
"politicians due to their campaign-finance system?"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: It beats me.  I wish I knew.  It's a terribly hard "
"problem.  If I knew how to solve that problem, I would solve it and nothing "
"in the world could make me prouder."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>QUESTION</b>:.  How do you fight the corporate control? Because when you "
"look at these sums of money going into corporate lobbying in the court case, "
"it is tremendous.  I think the DECS case that you're talking about is "
"costing something like a million-and-a-half dollars on the defense side.  "
"Lord knows what it's costing on the corporate side.  Do you have any idea "
"how to deal with these huge sums of money?"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: I have a suggestion.  If I were to suggest totally "
"boycotting movies, I think people would ignore that suggestion.  They might "
"consider it too radical.  So I would like to make a slightly different "
"suggestion which comes to almost the same thing in the end, and that is, "
"don't go to a movie unless you have some substantial reason to think it's "
"good.  Now this will lead in practice to almost the same result as a total "
"boycott of Hollywood movies.  In extension, it's almost the same but, in "
"intention, it's very different.  Now I've noticed that many people go to "
"movies for reasons that have nothing to do with whether they think the "
"movies are good.  So if you change that, if you only go to a movie when you "
"have some substantial reason to think it's good, you'll take away a lot of "
"their money."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>THORBURN</b>: One way to understand all of this discourse today, I think, "
"is to recognize that whenever radical, potentially transforming technologies "
"appear in society, there's a struggle over who controls them.  We today are "
"repeating what has happened in the past.  So from this angle, there may not "
"be a reason for despair, or even pessimism, about what may occur in the "
"longer run.  But, in the shorter term, struggles over the control of text "
"and images, over all forms of information are likely to be painful and "
"extensive."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"For example, as a teacher of media, my access to images has been restricted "
"in recent years in a way that had never been in place before.  If I write an "
"essay in which I want to use still images, even from films, they are much "
"harder to get permission to use, and the prices charged to use those still "
"images are much higher&mdash;even when I make arguments about intellectual "
"inquiry and the legal category of &ldquo;fair use.&rdquo; So I think, in "
"this moment of extended transformation, the longer-term prospects may, in "
"fact, not be as disturbing as what's happening in the shorter term.  But in "
"any case, we need to understand the whole of our contemporary experience as "
"a renewed version of a struggle over the control of technological resources "
"that is a recurring principle of Western society."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"It's also essential to understand that the history of older technologies is "
"itself a complicated matter.  The impact of the printing press in Spain, for "
"example, is radically different from its impact in England or in France."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>QUESTION</b>: One of the things that bothers me when I hear discussions "
"of copyright is that often they start off with, &ldquo;We want a 180-degree "
"change.  We want to do away with any sorts of control.&rdquo; It seems to me "
"that part of what lay under the three categories that were suggested is an "
"acknowledgement that there is some wisdom to copyright.  Some of the critics "
"of the way copyright is going now believe that, in fact, it ought to be "
"backed up and function much more like patent and trademarks in terms of its "
"duration.  I wonder if our speaker would comment on that as a strategy."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: I agree that shortening the time span of copyright is a "
"good idea.  There is absolutely no need in terms of encouraging publication "
"for a possibility of copyrights' lasting as much as 150 years, which, in "
"some cases, it can under present law.  Now the companies were saying that a "
"75-year copyright on a work made for hire was not long enough to make "
"possible the production of their works.  I'd like to challenge those "
"companies to present projected balance sheets for 75 years from now to back "
"up that contention.  What they really wanted was just to be able to extend "
"the copyrights on the old works, so that they can continue restricting the "
"use of them.  But how you can encourage greater production of works in the "
"1920s by extending copyright today escapes me, unless they have a time "
"machine somewhere.  Of course, in one of their movies, they had a time "
"machine.  So maybe that's what affected their thinking."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>QUESTION</b>: Have you given thought to extending the concept of "
"&ldquo;fair use,&rdquo; and are there any nuances there that you might care "
"to lay out for us?"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: Well, the idea of giving everyone permission for "
"noncommercial verbatim copying of two kinds of works, certainly, may be "
"thought of as extending what fair use is.  It's bigger than what's fair use "
"currently. If your idea is that the public trades away certain freedoms to "
"get more progress, then you can draw the line at various, different places.  "
"Which freedoms does the public trade away and which freedoms does the public "
"keep?"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>QUESTION</b>: To extend the conversation for just a moment, in certain "
"entertainment fields, we have the concept of a public presentation.  So, for "
"example, copyright does not prevent us from singing Christmas carols "
"seasonally but it prevents the public performance.  And I'm wondering if it "
"might be useful to think about instead of expanding fair use to unlimited, "
"noncommercial, verbatim copying, to something less than that but more than "
"the present concept of fair use."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: I used to think that that might be enough, and then Napster "
"convinced me otherwise because Napster is used by its users for "
"noncommercial, verbatim redistribution.  The Napster server, itself, is a "
"commercial activity but the people who are actually putting things up are "
"doing so noncommercially, and they could have done so on their websites just "
"as easily.  The tremendous excitement about, interest in, and use of Napster "
"shows that that's very useful.  So I'm convinced now that people should have "
"the right to publicly noncommercially, redistributed, verbatim copies of "
"everything."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>QUESTION</b>: One analogy that was recently suggested to me for the whole "
"Napster question was the analogy of the public library.  I suppose some of "
"you who have heard the Napster arguments have heard this analogy.  I'm "
"wondering if you would comment on it.  The defenders of people who say "
"Napster should continue and there shouldn't be restrictions on it sometimes "
"say something like this: &ldquo;When folks go into the public library and "
"borrow a book, they're not paying for it, and it can be borrowed dozens of "
"times, hundreds of times, without any additional payment.  Why is Napster "
"any different?&rdquo;"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: Well, it's not exactly the same.  But it should be pointed "
"out that the publishers want to transform public libraries into pay-per-use, "
"retail outlets.  So they're against public libraries."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>QUESTION</b>: Can these ideas about copyright suggest any ideas for "
"certain issues about patent law such as making cheap, generic drugs for use "
"in Africa?"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: No, there's absolutely no similarity.  The issues of "
"patents are totally different from the issues of copyrights.  The idea that "
"they have something to do with each other is one of the unfortunate "
"consequences of using the term &ldquo;intellectual property&rdquo; and "
"encouraging people to try to lump these issues together because, as you've "
"heard, I've been talking about issues in which the price of a copy is not "
"the crucial thing.  But what's the crucial issue about making AIDS drugs for "
"Africa? It's the price, nothing but the price."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Now the issue I've been talking about arises because digital information "
"technology gives every user the ability to make copies.  Well, there's "
"nothing giving us all the ability to make copies of medicines.  I don't have "
"the ability to copy some medicine that I've got.  In fact, nobody does; "
"that's not how they're made.  Those medicines can only be made in expensive "
"factories and they are made in expensive centralized factories, whether "
"they're generic drugs or imported from the U.S.  Either way, they're going "
"to be made in a small number of factories, and the issues are simply how "
"much do they cost and are they available at a price that people in Africa "
"can afford."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So that's a tremendously important issue, but it's a totally different "
"issue.  There's just one area where an issue arises with patents that is "
"actually similar to these issues of freedom to copy, and that is in the area "
"of agriculture.  Because there are certain patented things that can be "
"copies, more or less&mdash;namely, living things.  They copy themselves when "
"they reproduce.  It's not necessarily exact copying; they re-shuffle the "
"genes.  But the fact is, farmers for millennia have been making use of this "
"capacity of the living things they grow to copy themselves.  Farming is, "
"basically, copying the things that you grew and you keep copying them every "
"year.  When plant and animal varieties get patented, when genes are patented "
"and used in them, the result is that farmers are being prohibited from doing "
"this."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"There is a farmer in Canada who had a patented variety growing on his field "
"and he said, &ldquo;I didn't do that deliberately.  The pollen blew, and the "
"wind in those genes got into my stock of plants.&rdquo; And he was told that "
"that doesn't matter; he has to destroy them anyway.  It was an extreme "
"example of how much government can side with a monopolist."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"So I believe that, following the same principles that I apply to copying "
"things on your computer, farmers should have an unquestioned right to save "
"their seeds and breed their livestock.  Maybe you could have patents "
"covering seed companies, but they shouldn't cover farmers."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>QUESTION</b>: There's more to making a model successful than just the "
"licensing.  Can you speak to that?"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: Absolutely.  Well, you know, I don't know the answers.  But "
"part of what I believe is crucial for developing free, functional "
"information is idealism.  People have to recognize that it's important for "
"this information to be free, that when the information is free, you can make "
"full use of it.  When it's restricted, you can't.  You have to recognize "
"that the nonfree information is an attempt to divide them and keep them "
"helpless and keep them down.  Then they can get the idea, &ldquo;Let's work "
"together to produce the information we want to use, so that it's not under "
"the control of some powerful person who can dictate to us what we can "
"do.&rdquo;"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"This tremendously boosts it.  But I don't know how much it will work in "
"various different areas, but I think that in the area of education, when "
"you're looking for textbooks, I think I see a way it can be done.  There are "
"a lot of teachers in the world, teachers who are not at prestigious "
"universities&mdash;maybe they're in high-school; maybe they're in "
"college&mdash;where they don't write and publish a lot of things and there's "
"not a tremendous demand for them.  But a lot of them are smart.  A lot of "
"them know their subjects well and they could write textbooks about lots of "
"subjects and share them with the world and receive a tremendous amount of "
"appreciation from the people who will have learned from them."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>QUESTION</b>: That's what I proposed.  But the funny thing is, I do know "
"the history of education.  That's what I do&mdash;educational, electronic "
"media projects.  I couldn't find an example.  Do you know of one?"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: No, I don't.  I started proposing this free encyclopedia "
"and learning resource a couple of years ago, and I thought it would probably "
"take a decade to get things rolling.  Now we already have an encyclopedia "
"that is rolling.  So things are going faster than I hoped.  I think what's "
"needed is for a few people to start writing some free textbooks.  Write one "
"about whatever is your favorite subject or write a fraction of one.  Write a "
"few chapters of one and challenge other people to write the rest."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>QUESTION</b>: Actually what I was looking for is something even more than "
"that.  What's important in your kind of structure is somebody that creates "
"an infrastructure to which everybody else can contribute.  There isn't a K "
"through 12 infrastructure out there in any place for a contribution for "
"materials."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"I can get information from lots of places but it's not released under free "
"licenses, so I can't use it to make a free textbook."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: Actually, copyright doesn't cover the facts.  It only "
"covers the way it's written.  So you can learn a field from anywhere and "
"then write a textbook, and you can make that textbook free, if you want."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>QUESTION</b>: But I can't write by myself all the textbooks that a "
"student needs going through school."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"<b>STALLMAN</b>: Well, it's true.  And I didn't write a whole, free "
"operating system, either.  I wrote some pieces and invited other people to "
"join me by writing other pieces.  So I set an example.  I said, &ldquo;I'm "
"going in this direction.  Join me and we'll get there.&rdquo; And enough "
"people joined in that we got there.  So if you think in terms of, how am I "
"going to get this whole gigantic job done, it can be daunting.  So the point "
"is, don't look at it that way.  Think in terms of taking a step and "
"realizing that after you've taken a step, other people will take more steps "
"and, together, it will get the job done eventually."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"Assuming that humanity doesn't wipe itself out, the work we do today to "
"produce the free educational infrastructure, the free learning resource for "
"the world, that will be useful for as long as humanity exists.  If it takes "
"20 years to get it done, so what? So don't think in terms of the size of the "
"whole job.  Think in terms of the piece that you're going to do.  That will "
"show people it can be done, and so others will do other pieces."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><div><p>
msgid ""
"This speech is published in <a "
"href=\"https://shop.fsf.org/product/free-software-free-society/\"><cite>Free "
"Software, Free Society: The Selected Essays of Richard "
"M. Stallman</cite></a>."
msgstr ""

#. TRANSLATORS: Use space (SPC) as msgstr if you don't have notes.
#. type: Content of: <div>
msgid "*GNUN-SLOT: TRANSLATOR'S NOTES*"
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><div><p>
msgid ""
"Please send general FSF &amp; GNU inquiries to <a "
"href=\"mailto:gnu@gnu.org\">&lt;gnu@gnu.org&gt;</a>.  There are also <a "
"href=\"/contact/\">other ways to contact</a> the FSF.  Broken links and "
"other corrections or suggestions can be sent to <a "
"href=\"mailto:webmasters@gnu.org\">&lt;webmasters@gnu.org&gt;</a>."
msgstr ""

#.  TRANSLATORS: Ignore the original text in this paragraph,
#.         replace it with the translation of these two:
#
#.         We work hard and do our best to provide accurate, good quality
#.         translations.  However, we are not exempt from imperfection.
#.         Please send your comments and general suggestions in this regard
#.         to <a href="mailto:web-translators@gnu.org">
#
#.         &lt;web-translators@gnu.org&gt;</a>.</p>
#
#.         <p>For information on coordinating and contributing translations of
#.         our web pages, see <a
#.         href="/server/standards/README.translations.html">Translations
#.         README</a>. 
#. type: Content of: <div><div><p>
msgid ""
"Please see the <a "
"href=\"/server/standards/README.translations.html\">Translations README</a> "
"for information on coordinating and contributing translations of this "
"article."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid "Copyright &copy; 2001, 2021 Free Software Foundation, Inc."
msgstr ""

#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid ""
"This page is licensed under a <a rel=\"license\" "
"href=\"http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/\">Creative Commons "
"Attribution-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License</a>."
msgstr ""

#. TRANSLATORS: Use space (SPC) as msgstr if you don't want credits.
#. type: Content of: <div><div>
msgid "*GNUN-SLOT: TRANSLATOR'S CREDITS*"
msgstr ""

#.  timestamp start 
#. type: Content of: <div><p>
msgid "Updated:"
msgstr ""